WHY AND WHEN AND WHERE
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: N.G. To: Peter-R. Koenig Oh Boy !!! What are you talking about ???? The Masonic Temple which is on St-Mark Street is absolutely not a Memphis Misraim Temple, This is for the Scottish Rite, and they are against all lodge which aren't affiliated with them (i.e. England). The Masonic temple on Notre-Dame Street which use the Memphis Misrain rite have absolutely nothing to do with the Temple on St-Mark Street , and even less with the Memphis Lodge on Ontario Street (Deumié's Lodge). I think that you confuse 3 different lodge in one, and none of these lodge are in contact. Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: Leah Yeh it slipped by me too, and I do believe it was Poole who wrote "St. Marc's Memphis Mizraim Temple on Notre Dame Street", it slipped by me though, because yes NG is right, There is an MM Temple (a regular one, Simon checked it out) on Notre Dame Street (they told him that Deumié's was bogus BTW, even though Deumié had said that he would be able to get into "any Lodge in the World" as a member of his OMU) — it is a francophone Temple: http://www.memphis-misraim.org 3722 rue Notre Dame Ouest, Montreal and yes (and now I am confused, because I had thought that Mr. Poole and company were working out of the yes, AASR Temple on St. Marc Street, and it is to the AASR that I wrote my letter — I know for a fact that "some" events were held there, but I cannot confirm that that is where Poole was working, I think Poole was dissembling there, combining the three names into one, to be "cute" and unfortunately it slipped by me). The AASR is at: Masonic Memorial Temple (AASR) 2295 St. Marc, Montreal like I said, I am aware that for a while (and maybe still) this bastion of regular freemasonry would rent rooms to groups for various events. However, where exactly WAS Poole's group working? it is unclear to me. But in your opening paragraph you do have "St. Marc's Memphis-Misraim Centre on Notre-Dame Street" which is an obvious absurdity. As for the "Templar Centre" on Ontario Street, that is what Mr. Poole — and no one else I am aware of — called the basement of a long-closed bank that we all rented together. And of course Deumié's MM is also on Ontario St. East. I will read the "Poole section" to see where the "St. Marc's Memphis-Misraim Centre on Notre-Dame Street" and see if we can clarify where exactly he was renting his space for initiations. I suspect it was in the AASR building, to be honest, as I said, they do rent space now and again for "Meetings". Obviously this needs some redaction. Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: Leah link to the "Masonic Memorial Temple" on St. Marc Street: http://pages.infinit.net/lafrentz/struc-histroy.html it was the HQ for the GLQ (may still be I haven't read the whole site yet): http://www3.sympatico.ca/hiram/history.html [defunct] (already sent you the link for the MM Temple on Notre Dame West) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: Leah Finally I found the AASR info site, as you can see (Montreal Valley is just above Moose Jaw, LOL!) they also use the big Temple on St. Marc's Street..... http://www.scottishritemasons-can.org/mouke.html Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: Leah To: jim(at)kirk-white.com Subject: to AASR webmaster, a question Cc: Peter-R. Koenig Dear Webmaster for the AASR Site, I looked on the page at http://www.scottishritemasons-can.org/content.htm and other than the guest book, I saw no other contact address, so if you cannot answer my question, perhaps you would be so kind as to forward this email on to someone who can. I do not feel comfortable leaving my question at the guestbook. Recently a new section was added to Peter R. Koenig's site on the OTO Phenomenon and other things, and this has to do with the history of the Caliphate OTO (as it is sometimes called, cOTO) in Canada, and particularly in Montreal. The URL is: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/intro.htm The OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) is a pseudo-masonic group and many details about this are to be found in Peter R. Koenig's site: https://www.parareligion.ch There is a statement by David Poole (who was the CEO of OTO, Inc., until its disincorporation in Quebec in May 2001) who was "chartered" as Montreal's Phoenix Lodge Master, that: "After a year or so we negotiated a weekly meeting at the Memphis-Misraim Center on Notre-Dame Ouest in Montréal, where we did Minervals, Ist, IInds, IIIrds, the Gnostic Mass, the Rites of Eleusis, and various Ceremonial Magick workings. Now things were running smoothly, and some of the "coup" members were getting more and more envious of the state of things." at: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/canada3.htm and there is a contradictory statement from Robert Latullippe (who at one time was the Secretary or Treasurer of the group and a Phoenix Lodge officer as well), that: "(the initiations took place at St. Marc's Memorial Masonic Temple in Montréal)" at: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/canada5.htm and I wonder if you could clarify whether or not the Memorial Masonic Temple in Montreal, on St. Marc's Street was actually used for initiations and other rituals into the OTO, this would have been during the early 1990s? Thank you for your help. Leah cc: Peter R. Koenig Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 From: Leah Subject: the OTO is a hoax? !-- AASR Here is the VERY prompt answer we got from AASR: > Sorry I cannot help you. I have never heard of this OTO, and checking > out the site it seems to be a hoax of some sort. There is certainly no > connection to Masonry or the Scottish Rite. > In regards to the Montreal question you might check with a Lodge in > the Quebec jurisdiction as I would have no way of knowing where they > would rent space. > Cheers, Jim Kirk-White Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 From: Leah To: glscanada(at)hotmail.com Cher Loge Memphis-Misraim; Premierement, je voudrais m'excuser du manque d'accents appropries. Je regardais la page situe au http://scottishritemasons-can.org/content.htm et je n'ai pas vue une adresse de contact, alors si vous ne pouvez pas repondre a ma question, peut-etre vous pourriez etre assez gentil d'avancer ce courriel a quelqu'un qui pourrait. Recamment une nouvelle section a ete ajoute au site web de Peter R. Koenig - qui a rapport avec le phenomene de l'OTO et autres sujets - qui a affaire avec l'histoire de l'OTO caliphat (qui est parfois appele cOTO) au Canada, et particulierement avec l'histoire de ce meme a Montreal. L'URL du site a M. Koenig pertinent a cette question est: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/intro.htm. L'OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) est un groupe pseudo-masonnique et beaucoup de details peuvent etre obtenus au site de M. Koenig: https://www.parareligion.ch. Il y a une declaration d'un David Poole (qui etait le chef executif de OTO, Inc. au Quebec jusqu'a la disincorporation ici au mois de mai, 2001) qui avait un "chartre" pour la Loge Phoenix d'OTO, qui dit: "After a year or so we negotiated a weekly meeting at the Memphis-Misraim Center on Notre-Dame Ouest in Montréal, where we did Minervals, Ist, IInds, IIIrds, the Gnostic Mass, the Rites of Eleusis, and various Ceremonial Magick workings. Now things were running smoothly, and some of the "coup" members were getting more and more envious of the state of things." traduction: Apres a peu pres un an ou plus on avait negocie un 'meeting' au centre de Memphis-Misraim sur Notre-Dame Ouest a Motreal, ou on a performer des 'Minervals', Iiers, IIiemes, IIIiemes, la Messe Gnostique, les Rites d'Eleusis, et un varia de rituels de magie ceremonielle. Maintenant les choses roulent bien, et quelques des membres du 'coup' devenaient de plus en plus envieux de la situation. au: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/canada3.htm et il y a une declaration contradictoire de Robert Latulippe (qui etait le secretaire ou tresorier du groupe, et aussi un officier de la Loge Pheonix) qui dit: "(the initiations took place at St. Marc's Memorial Masonic Temple in Montréal)" traduction: (les initiations ont pris place au Temple Memoriel Masonnique sur St-Marc a Montreal) au: https://www.parareligion.ch/moose/canada5.htm. Je me demandais si vous pouviez clarifier si votre Temple de Memphis-Misraim, sur la rue Notre-Dame Ouest, etait vraiement utilise pour des initiations et autres rituels par l'OTO? Ceci aurais arrive tot durant les annees 1990. Merci d'avance pour votre aide. Eric Cote cc: Peter R. Koenig Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 From: N.G. > Masonic Memorial Temple (AASR) > 2295 St. Marc, Montreal > events. As far as I know, the Memorial Masonic Temple is only renting local for Masonic activities, I'll be very surprised to here that they rent it for something like O.T.O. And even with masonry they are selective, because they are loyal to the Grand Lodge of England. i.e: they don't recognize other masons than those which are affiliated with the Grand Lodge of Quebec (for Canada, i.e. England) Leah: As for the "Templar Centre" on Ontario Street, that is what Mr. Poole — and no one else I am aware of — called the basement of a long-closed bank that we all rented together. N.G.: Maybe at the angle of Ontario St. and Papineau St. Leah: And of course Deumié's MM is also on Ontario St. East. N.G.: Yes, at the angle of Ontario St. and St-Denis St. Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 From: N.G. Masonry in Canada are related with the Grand Lodge of England... If I want , tommorow I register the name "MMM i.e. Maison Memphis Misraim" and I'm a MM authority in Canada. The only "recognized" rite in Canada is the AASR, and it must be affiliated with England. So MM rite isn't "recognized" as a rite in Canada. A MM mason can give a grip to a "regular" AASR mason in Canada , and the "regular" mason will tell you honestly that he don't "recognize" as such ! MM recognize AASR, but AASR doesn't recognize MM. AASR says they had never dealings with OTO Hehe... Businessmen doesn't dell with aliens !! Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 From: David Poole Subject: Correction Templar Center in downtown Montréal. After several months we moved to Center Maconnique de Montreal (Memphis Misraim Center) NOT St-Marcs. (Although we did Minervals at St-Marcs Masonic Memorial Temple while we were still using the room in Metamorphoses.) In all we used St-Marcs on three occasions, as Phoenix Oasis for 6 Minervals, as Phoenix Lodge for 3 Minervals, and finally as Phoenix Lodge for 3 IV* & PI's (with participation of Tahuti Lodge officers and Grand Lodge officers. We had an excellent working relationship with St-Marcs). Leah: no comment, but now I am pretty sure they must have rented a room, without saying what the room was used for. Poole: Why the disbelief? We had meeting room, ante-chamber and Blue Lodge. They knew exactly what it was for, and we even used the Masons caterer to bring the Agape after we were done! Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 From: Poole Greetings, I just came across this, which may be of interest: www.memphis-misraim.org This is the temple that we used to rent from. David
The highlighted yellow dot: This was Soror Ferox's house (when she was still in Montréal), and where Alan Stewart had a temple in - it's a private house.
This map was provided by David Poole.
Map of the Temples. Phoenix Lodge (Cafe Theleme), Starry Wisdom, Templar Centre
Map provided by Leah and Simon.
TOPAZbulletin Phoenix Oasis Phenix
On Order nomination David Poole was raised as Oasis Master in early September [...]
His ideals are such that he wondered about the best place possible to inaugurate the new Oasis. A million dollar inheritance could go a long way now he mused. Then a thought occured: "If the Masons are related through Parental lineage to us 'Templars' let's ask for the use of their beloved 'St- Marcs' Masonic Memorial Temple".
An Oasis space in the form of Room 501 of the Masonic Memorial Temple was rented and beautifully used.
SUBURBSFrom the Intro Page: "Once upon a time Canada was considered to be the 'Caliphate' O.T.O's "most rapidly gorwing [sic] province" (William Heidrick to Donna Anne Parks, 13 March, 1982). The 'Caliphate'
Leah suggested: "i would just simply take out the phrase "in the suburbs of Montréal" and I would replace "founded in Montréal" with "founded in the Province of Québec", which is what actually happened (Montréal is a city in the Province, the registration was with the Province, not the city.) You will have to put "Province of Québec" to distinguish it from the "Ville/City of Québec.) Geography lesson, Montréal is on an island in the St. Lawrence/St. Laurent River. Laval is a smaller island to the North of Montréal. Technically it could be called a "suburb" I suppose, because many live on the island of Laval and commute to Montréal, but to avoid confusion I would just leave out the phrase. people here are going to know that Ste. Jovite is not a suburb! lol!
Ste. Jovite was no where NEAR being a suburb, it is basically a ski-resort/tourist area in a mostly still wild or agricultural "green-zone" area of the province. It is to the NE of Montréal. "Phoenix Lodge" was never registered with the government, "OTO" was never registered with the city of Montréal, but with the Province of Québec, and finally, the first "Caliphate" body was not Phoenix Lodge, wasn't it W.H. Smith Camp or something? (too lazy to look it up)."
Watch out where the Mooses go
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